(keitai-l) Re: DRM for picture messaging

From: Paul Bryan Lester <pbl1_at_livedoor.com>
Date: 01/11/03
Message-ID: <3E1F5FD0.377C512A@livedoor.com>
    Also EZweb, and JSky also have protection in their copyrighted music files

as well.  Not identical but its there none the less and I've tested it and it
works
most of the time.....  But of course,  (in Japan), I think
(it could be a problem on my side as well, its always been my content not
official content that I've tested with) there are a few handsets out there
that have bugs where the protection does not work.... but I'm not sayin which
ones.  Those
handsets are probably getting huge fees that they have to pay to cover
up their problem and don't want the world to know or they'll have
to pay bigger feed and recall.... if I'm right and say.

    Copyrighted content is cool!  Its like you can download it but you can't
send
it to anyone else .... sometimes you can download it and you can't save it to
your
data folder..... its so cool!  There's so many different ways its implemented!

The first time I tested it it like totally freaked me out.... it was so cool!

    This has been being done for years now.... even the first downloadable
contents
on each provider (music wize) was copy protectable... even those 2 voice 1
instrument melodies.


Cedric NICOLAS wrote:

> Agree with you Gerhard, but why when you ask to some content providers =
> if they prefer I-mode mail or MMS, they answer you " I prefer I-mode =
> mail because I'm sure that with I-mode handsets my content won't be =
> copied or transferred without paying the rights I'm waiting for ?". In =
> fact I-mode handsets, and this is the case in Europe too, give the =
> ability to protect content (ringtones, images) by putting a protection =
> bit to "true" in the header of the content, that blocks all possible =
> transfers of that content once it has been downloaded. In fact, the =
> problem in mobile is not the fact that content providers will sue or not =
> an individual who do illegal copy or transfer (it's impossible), but, if =
> you allow this on chargeable content, then the business model on mobiles =
> for content providers might seriously be compromised and content =
> providers will be sued ! We have very strict laws in Europe to protect =
> for example music ringtones. Each ringtone download has to generate a =
> reverse amount (% of the user price) to a centralized author's =
> association that redistribute those fees to authors. But the download is =
> considered as personal. If the CP allow forwarding through mail without =
> charging, you're out of the law...
>
> It's why we need DRM implemented in handsets. To day I-mode phones =
> implements a basic "forward lock" (non redistribution flag). We may need =
> more complex DRM scheme in the future, for example for videos. But that =
> basic "forward lock" doesn't exists in today MMS phones. You may now =
> understand why some major CPs refuse at this time to publish their =
> content on MMS...This will change, hopefully. OMA is being on a =
> standardisation process on DRM, and it will come very soon on phones. =
> I-mode has definitely an advance on that topic.
>
> Cedric NICOLAS
> Responsable expertise i-mode
> i-mode expertise manager
> Bouygues Telecom
> +33 1 58 17 98 88
> +33 6 60 31 13 59
> cenicola@bouyguestelecom.fr
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : keitai-l-bounce@appelsiini.net =
> [mailto:keitai-l-bounce@appelsiini.net]De la part de Gerhard Fasol
> Envoy=C3=A9 : vendredi 10 janvier 2003 17:08
> =C3=80 : keitai-l@appelsiini.net
> Objet : (keitai-l) Re: DRM for picture messaging
>
> Interesting.
>
> But I think Disney on imode and J-sky and
> EZweb don't have problems with digital rights management I think.
> I don't think Bandai or the weather service etc have.
>
> I guess if someone would start piping the Disney content
> to a million users and charge those users without
> Disney's permission, I am sure they'll take action.
> I am also sure that if I email one Mickey-Mouse picture
> by email to each my sons mobile phones, that Disney
> will take no action even if they find out about it.
>
> I am also sure that if someone starts a Napster-style
> service for mobile phones then the IP owners will also
> close it down.
>
> Gerhard
>
> John Whelan wrote:
> > As poster of thief original request in this thread:
> >
> > I agree that in many ways this *should* be a non-issue but the fact is =
> =3D
> > that the owners of big name branded content are very concerned about =
> =3D
> > DRM. While they would in the long run gain more by embracing the =3D
> > superdistribution potential of mobile messaging, nevertheless they are =
> =3D
> > far too short sighted for various OT reasons to see beyond the next =
> =3D
> > quarter.
> >
> > In Europe we have to try and provide some comfort re: DRM to these =3D
> > content providers as that have lots of cash:-). We live in the real =
> =3D
> > world and must give customers what they want. The real stumbling block =
> =3D
> > is the lack of timely standards from the standards bodies - not to =3D
> > mention the numerous standard bodies that claim to be responsible for =
> =3D
> > messaging DRM. =3D20
> >
> > On the other hand of course it might hopefully turn out to benefit the =
> =3D
> > providers of new wave of underground and innovative content that is =
> =3D
> > willing to work with the medium rather than against it. Unfortunately =
> =3D
> > however I feel that as always the big brands will probably learn from =
> =3D
> > the mistakes of the minnows and win out in the end.
> >
> > John
> >
> > www.alatto.com
> >
> > =3D20
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: keitai-l-bounce@appelsiini.net
> > [mailto:keitai-l-bounce@appelsiini.net]On Behalf Of Gerhard Fasol
> > Sent: 10 January 2003 03:33
> > To: keitai-l@appelsiini.net
> > Subject: (keitai-l) Re: DRM for picture messaging
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Has anybody got any information about how the Japanese content =3D
> >
> > providers,
> >
> >>opcos and handset manufacturers tackle the thorny issue of Digital =3D
> >
> > Rights
> >
> >>Management in the area of picture messaging? I assume it is possible =
> =3D
> >
> > for
> >
> >>consumers to purchase images such as comic strips, wallpapers and  =3D
> >
> > cutesy
> >
> >>animations (Hello Kitty).  Is there a mechanism to prevent the
> >>redistribution of these images to other handsets?
> >
> >
> >
> > I agree with Paul that this is largely a non-issue.
> >
> > One point is, that e.g. the owners of "Hello Kitty" (Sanrio) don't
> > want to criminalize the consumers, for example, if I attach a picture
> > of "Hello Kitty" to this email and broadcast it to this email group:
> > do you think Sanrio is going to take me to court and make a lot of
> > people angry against Sanrio?
> >
> > Another point is "fair use"
> >
> > Another point is that Sanrio has an interest in spreading Hello Kitty,
> > i.e. making Hello Kitty more famous.
> >
> > Another point is, that mobile internet (and other business models)
> > are pretty sophisticated by now, i.e. Sanrio's business model is not
> > simply selling one picture of Hello Kitty as a screen saver - they
> > do a lot more that that. So if I attach a picture of Hello Kitty to
> > this email and mail it to my friends on this news group, the effect
> > on Sanrio's business models is zero. As an example, Sanrio (I have
> > not looked into this in detail) but probably makes money by doing
> > something like sending a different Hello Kitty everyday to subscribers
> > of the Hello-Kitty site + Hello Kitty birthday cards etc etc etc,
> > so they probably sell a large number of relatively sophisticated
> > products including some variation of Hello Kitty images. So,
> > if a few of the million subscribers forward one of these specialized
> > images, that makes again no difference whatsoever to Sunrio's business
> > models.
> >
> > An analogy would be for example, if I forward a single news article
> > of "Wall street journal"'s online site, that is not going to
> > put the WallStreet Journal out of business - on the contrary that
> > is encouraged by them.
> >
> > Actually, come to think of it - if people forward single images
> > of Hello Kitty, that's more like viral marketing and Sanrio probably
> > encourages this.
> >
> > John, contact me off line if you need more help with understanding
> > Japan's mobile internet markets - I often notice from our European
> > customers that it's not so easy to understand unless you have
> > worked a lot directly with it. In Japan mobile internet is a lot
> > more complex now than selling single screen savers of Hello Kitty
> > against a few yen.
> >
> > Gerhard
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Gerhard Fasol, PhD                         Eurotechnology Japan K. K.
> >                                         http://www.eurotechnology.com/
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Read about us in "IBM developerWorks":
> > http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/wireless/library/wi-elite8.html
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
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> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gerhard Fasol, PhD                         Eurotechnology Japan K. K.
> fasol_at_eurotechnology.com               http://www.eurotechnology.com/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Read about us in "IBM developerWorks":
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/wireless/library/wi-elite8.html
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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--
-Paul Lester
pbl1@cornell.edu
Received on Sat Jan 11 02:18:29 2003