(keitai-l) Re: SIM cards in Japan 2008

From: Craig Kovatch <cromas_at_gmail.com>
Date: 02/14/08
Message-ID: <4254f2b00802131939u70850b6ckdb054b949a3bf6ad@mail.gmail.com>
Thanks for the very informative response. SoftBank charges up to
60-70,000 yen for some of their phones though (if you don't amortize
it over your contract)...so I still feel they are probably making more
than they are subsidizing. Hopefully that will change someday =)

Thanks again,
*C*raig ;-)

On Feb 12, 2008 12:52 AM, Nik Frengle <nfrengle@gmail.com> wrote:
> Greg,
> Sure, that is something that I can pretty confidently answer: They won't
> unlock phones because they don't have to. The only reason carriers in any
> market unlock phones is because they are forced to by regulation. There is
> no such regulation in Japan, and so they don't do it. In fact, the
> Sony-Ericcson V802SE was unlockable, and when that was discovered by
> Vodafone Japan, they basically stopped selling it. If you asked for a
> logical, business answer, it would be that Softbank subsidises phones under
> the agreement with customers that they will use that phone on their network,
> thereby paying back the investment that Softbank have made in that customer
> through purchasing the phone for them. If you think you are paying anywhere
> near the actual cost of a phone, you are really mistaken: Even at 30,000
> yen, for a brand new phone with one-seg, the built-in Suica thingy, and so
> on, you are the recipient of between 40,000 and 50,000 yen worth of
> subsidies. The only phones that 30,000 would buy on the open market are the
> ojiisan ones that don't have many features.
> This is not only a feature of the Japanese mobile phone market, but also
> most other competitive markets. The one really big difference is that in
> Japan the handsets are effectively custom built for each carrier, and
> therefore the prices are quit a lot higher than in other markets, where
> mobile phone makers sell standard handsets with minor software differences
> between carriers, and which are cheaper on average than those in Japan.
>
> 2008/2/11 Craig Kovatch <cromas@gmail.com>:
>
>
> > Nik,
> >
> > Since you seem to be in the know about all of this, do you have an
> > idea why SoftBank will not, under any circumstances, SIM-unlock a
> > phone? Seeing as how they charge almost full-price for their new
> > handsets, it just doesn't make sense anymore...
> >
> > Sigh.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > craig
> >
> > On Feb 6, 2008 4:49 PM, Nik Frengle <nfrengle@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > You can get just a SIM off of Softbank, though as indicated above, it is
> > > only for postpaid plans, so you have to sign up for a plan. You may also
> > > need to go to one of the shops where they are more likely to understand
> > such
> > > a request: Roppongi, or Yaesu kita-guchi would be my choice. The trick
> > with
> > > getting access to data (which I haven't tried recently enough to know
> > > whether it is still true) is that you need the APN information for
> > Softbank
> > > to be able to put this into your phone. However, if the device you are
> > using
> > > is not one that Softbank have certified to work (actually, it is the
> > > government that does the certification), Softbank *might* not allow it
> > to
> > > access the APN. It can do that by checking the IMEI, which are specific
> > to a
> > > maker and device. If this is done, it is because officially
> > non-certified
> > > devices are illegal to use on the network under Japanese law, UNLESS YOU
> > ARE
> > > ROAMING, in which case it is fine to use any device (kind of weird, I
> > know,
> > > but when we were testing mobile data cards at VF Japan, we used
> > non-Japanese
> > > SIM cards to make sure we weren't breaking any laws). If the device is
> > an
> > > unlocked version of a device that Softbank are already selling, the
> > chance
> > > of the device not being allowed on seem small (unless, of course, they
> > are
> > > doing something else...;). To be honest, I don't think that locking out
> > of
> > > IMEIs was ever done in the way I have described above, only if a
> > specific
> > > device was found to cause problems on the network, but I am not
> > positive,
> > > and in any case things have changed (alot, from what I hear from the
> > > ever-dwindling number of people I still know there).
> > > Of course, provisioning for data plans may have a trigger that, unless
> > you
> > > purchase a compatible device with your data plan, will not provision you
> > for
> > > any flat rate plans. In fact, that would be the way that I would guess
> > my
> > > old colleagues would go about it: The preference is generally to do
> > things
> > > on the billing system rather than the network. (IT guys can be rushed
> > into
> > > doing things more easily than radio network guys). If that is the case,
> > you
> > > could just follow Andrew's advice and get a device for no cost, and then
> > > swap the SIM. As far as I am aware, there is no cross-checking of SIM
> > card
> > > numbers with IMEI numbers, and no plans to do so. (it would be easy to
> > do
> > > when the billing system processed CDRs, but would add time in the
> > billing
> > > process, for very little return, since processing of CDRs is done in
> > batches
> > > so the swapped SIM wouldn't be detected until quite long after the CDR
> > was
> > > created, and very few users in Japan swap SIM cards.)
> > > Sorry, a bit long winded, but there your are.
> > > Best,
> > > Nik
> > >
> > > 2008/2/6 Andrew Shuttleworth <andrew@cvp.jp>:
> > >
> > > >  I forgot to actually answer the question.
> > > >
> > > > >   > these phones if you live in Japan? Are any of the carriers
> > selling
> > > > SIM
> > > > > > > cards?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > I'm not actually sure whether they will just sell a SIM for voice
> > > > packages,
> > > > but you should be able to get a 1 yen/0 yen phone (make sure it's 3G)
> > and
> > > > just pull out the SIM.
> > > >
> > > > For data packages, again I'm not sure you can just get a SIM, but if
> > you
> > > > got
> > > > a USB or PC card you could just pull out the SIM card. As in my
> > previous
> > > > mail though - they may not support you using it in a non-supported
> > device.
> > > > :-(
> > > >
> > > > Andrew
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This mail was sent to address nfrengle@gmail.com
> > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This mail was sent to address cromas@gmail.com
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> > >
> >
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> >
>
>
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Received on Thu Feb 14 05:39:20 2008